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Don't Want to Pay $99/year to make nothing but pixel money?

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Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:54:00 - [1] Originally by: Liberty Eternal It can only be an improvement to incentivise the very best web developers so that they can keep pushing forward and delivering to people what they really want. Yes, some sites will fall by the wayside, but more potential may be unleashed by a capitalistic free-market model. We just haven't experienced that model yet, so we're not aware of the value of that alternative. tl;dr - it may take a year or two, but you'll see a few very good websites taking over where before there were dozens of uncoordinated and low-quality websites. Now stop with the capitalistic mumbo jumbo for a second and THINK at what kind of "few very good websites" you are going to see: the Apple-alike generalistic stuff like that Capsuleer application. ALL THE REST, IS DEAD, R.I.P. NEVER you will see anyone clicking enough Google ads or anything enough to make money of a website covering MD. If this is the great capitalism you see, I only see a destruction of freely given added value. Keep the apple "app", it'll do you good. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 21:52:00 - [2] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Sorry, but aren't you underestimating the power of innovation and business leadership? - why do you assume that each program needs a website [and thus license] of its own? - how do you know what degree of untapped financial and intellectual resources lay in the EVE community? - what's to stop teams of people working together on good concepts and sharing costs/rewards under a common company banner? - isn't there now a role for financiers to step in and play the role of investor - buying licenses and offering them to app creators who look promising? - wouldn't you pay a few dollars to watch Clear Skies 4 or other project you love? And wouldn't that help to ensure that there is a Clear Skies 4? Whether it works or not is down to the imagination, leadership and skill of EVE's players - I'm surprised people on MD are whining so much about it, this is a great opportunity for us to take the whole market, as well as create a few new ones. Let's use the free market to find ways of pleasing each other and maximising the value of our time and effort I am sorry I am usually quite friendly with the things you say but let me shed some light for you. WE ARE THE MARKET. CCP are pulling their side of the rope, we are pulling ours. The resulting vector will dictate who wins and who loses. Therefore this is all the free pure market you want. There's really nothing easier than this. They want to obliterate those who just want to amortize a small part of their costs (hosting, domain name etc) and deliver an incredible amount of value. Your audits would NEVER have been possible with this imbecile idiocy in place you know? When even Chribba posts swearing, you know CCP pulled too far. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 21:56:00 - [3] Also, did you know that ALL the corps hosting a killboard for their alliance / corp will have to pay $99 as well? There's not a single KB that has not a link to Shattered Crystal. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Liberty Eternal But fundamentally, over time, people tend to prefer systems/economies where they are able to demand the goods they actually want - even if it means paying for them - rather than having a system where they get goods they don't really want - even if those goods are free. You are confusing RL with EvE. In RL you HAVE to contend with limited resources, you HAVE to be efficient, you DONT HAVE a choice buy to pay. In EvE you HAD to pay a sub, you will HAVE to pay if you want aurum stuff and now you WILL have to pay an additional other subscription on top of that. How's this efficient market, when the game does NOT support basic features so you have to ALSO pay 3rd party crutches? How many developers will bother developing something catering to 44 people? NO ONE. Yet I have rewritten parts of a dead application that produced your audit because I cared even for 44 people. Because it costed me nothing but time. Now I challenge you to find someone willing to upgrade the app. Ambo, the producer of a most succesful EMMA application with > 10 times my application downloads has dediced to shut it down. Does it work well for you? Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:16:00 - [5] Also, since people here love to talk about grand economy, have you got a fricking clue about how much it costs to keep EvE-Central dedicated server up? How many hundreds a months does Chribba's EvE-Files alone costs? Did you know the abusive penalties you pay to be authorized to keep EvE-Search functioning? Huge bandwidth, tons of files (some commercial hosts ban you when you pass 50,000 files or a certain database file if you don't pay a massive over-fee. Who's going to create Eve-Search2? Knowing the new forums will make it partially (or worse) obsolete? Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:35:00 - [6] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2011 22:37:40 How news, since it'll cost $99: Hulkageddon will be no more. I am sure Liberty Eternal will find a capitalist willing to make people pay to join his new and shinier WalletAGeddon come next year. Quote: You will not witness any of those programs die, because we never knew them as they were never created - it may well be the case that even with Chribba's great work, the current situation is grossly sub-optimal compared to what it could have been. Could you please land on Planet Earth now? You will NEVER find anyone trusted like Chribba, pay money or not. Therefore all the websites of him storing reserved data will never be replicated again. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 23:05:00 - [7] Explain me, why should I spend weeks of my time developing content for everyone interested to enjoy and - instead of being rewarded - I am meant to give CCP 1, 5, 99 or whatever amount? Please tell me. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 23:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2011 23:20:32 Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Explain me, why should I spend weeks of my time developing content for everyone interested to enjoy and - instead of being rewarded - I am meant to give CCP 1, 5, 99 or whatever amount? Please tell me. Non-Profit allows you to take on donations in order to cover you costs for running your part of the service. The issue is there are legal implications of this. Lets assume it costs you $500 a month to run all your stuff. Across a whole year that's $6,000, and 100% of it was covered by donations. For a start you'll have to declare the income. That might be where they are coming from. If you have to declare the income and pay taxes, that's an issue. There are 3 main issues with this: 1) I declared my income, today I posted in two threads the screenshot of huge 0.26 euros of income I have made in 6 months. 2) Shall I have to start a RL corp? In my country a private willing just to declare his income has to shell out 100-140 euros, if it's a corp (even individual one) the cost quickly quintuplicates. ALL OF THIS FOR 0.26 STINKING EUROS. 3) How many actually get $6000 in donations? 1? 2? Maybe Chribba and Battleclinic because their websites are visited by hundreds of thousands a month. What about the hundreds of obscure corps that now won't be able to use a killboard any more? What about the myriad of websites with an huge 100 visits a month? What about the dozens of 2006-2007 eve related websites now lying abandoned? Will the go jail the developer IRL after 4 years he's switched to another MMO? Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 00:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Vasaczk $99 for unlimited upside seems fair to me. It's your own fault if you can't realise said upside. TBH I'm amazed they haven't included some royalties catch. This is clearly Apple. This is clearly a market with millions of willing users ready to pay and being trained to pay even the air they breath since a decade ago. This is clearly Status Symbol the paying users will get. IAuditphone 4. This is obviously an added value service, where developers get a well documented SDK, additional tools and support. O wait. None of this applies. First we had an uniquely pathological case of microtransactions AND subscription. Now we have an uniquely pathological case of selling a negligible market with no support nor documentation for Apple alike price. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 00:50:00 - [10] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 16/06/2011 00:55:04 Quote: Your going to be among the people benefitting the most.. Unlike popular beliefs, I make 100 times as much in the days I lose at RL trading than what I make with every service I do except auditing. Auditing is at break even and only because of: Raw23, Rykker Bow and Liberty Eternal. Otherwise, ice mining would be more lucrative. Edit: "HAY GUYS I DO AUDITS NOW, JUST $9.99 each!" Oh wait I do it because I wanted to bring in value to the community, not to get a badly paid effing RL JOB. Quote: Are you raging at the aurum now? Aurum could have been the coolest thing ever, I even created a thread about the potential. Of course the actual implementation turned up to be horripilant, therefore the only thing it makes is to artificially rise a subscription cost with no other gameplay value except dressing some barbie in space. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 01:06:00 - [11] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 16/06/2011 01:06:43 Originally by: Rhivre Doesnt all of this rather hinge on their definition of ingame and out of game services, and what is commercial/non commercial? As mentioned, the ISK thing has been pretty much mooted (I think), so now its about what constitutes a commercial service or not Excerpt taken from my post in GD: Imagine you just finished your free and open source app. You just want to make it available and get your oh-so-free license right? Too bad, 99.9% of the free hosts HAVE ads and you can't do anything. Even Google, Sourceforge, everywhere there's ads. So you WILL have to pay $99. Or you can pay: - domain name - 1 year of virtual hosting - 1 certificate in case your work requires some security for the users. - Someone to install all the weblog or whatever you use. Or spend days doing it yourself (which have a value). This easily make for a good penny. So I can pay 100-200 euros in my new zero ads server OR pay $99 to CCP to put all on a free-yet-ads-ridden website. NO WAY TO ESCAPE. THE 3rd freeware developer is FU*ED. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.17 00:07:00 - [12] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 17/06/2011 00:08:16 Originally by: Block Ukx Crap!!! DO I have to pay $99 for the BSAC Exchange? Not now, Yes later depending on how much of the current proposal gets confirmed. As of today You are getting ISK sent by players (which for the utterly brain farted "license" is the same as getting a donation. Even look at how the journal classes these entries: donations). Plus you have some ads, therefore it seems you seem to earn some ISK off other players. => more donations => pay $99. Finally, if any part of your website uses a (Google) ads website, then you must also pay $99. It's a while I don't check BSAC but I recall you put some documents on Google Docs or similar. Then you have to pay. Basically, you have to pay a full commercial license given you have any service where you get paid any amount of ISK. If your service uses the API (and it does), then it's another catch where you are required to pay the full commercial license. Have fun reading the blog, in its current form, the content sucks but it's incredibly detailed about neutering the bejeezus out of you. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.17 00:40:00 - [13] Also, just in. The official EvE website is using Dotlan to show the Systems sov maps. IE they avoid the burden of creating their own maps, delegate it on Dotlan and then propose a license to charge $99 out of Dotlan itself. Example Isn't this just ... Ugh Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity

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